In this episode of Influencers, Andy is joined by Heineken USA CEO, Maggie Timoney as they discuss the business of beer and Timoney's rise to the top of a male dominated industry.

Video Transcript

ANDY SERWER: Maggie Timoney is the CEO of Heineken, USA. A native of Ireland, Timoney immigrated to the United States to attend New York's Iona College on a basketball scholarship, where she later earned her MBA. Timoney joined Heineken in 1998, where she rose through the ranks, holding executive positions across Europe before landing the job as Heineken's first female US CEO. In this episode of Influencers, Maggie Timoney joins me as we discuss the business of beer and her rise to the top of a male dominated industry.

Hello, everyone. And welcome to Influencers. I'm Andy Serwer. And welcome to our guest, Maggie Timoney, who is Heineken USA's CEO. Maggie, great to see you. Thanks for joining us.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Thanks for having me, Andy.

ANDY SERWER: So talk to us about Heineken USA. How big is the business/ and what is the relationship between Heineken USA and the parent company in Europe?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, we have circa 4% market share in the US. So, our Heineken name is a big name. And when I tell people that sometimes, they think, wow. I thought it would be much bigger because Heineken brand is such an international brand in almost every country in the world.

Our relationship with Amsterdam, and my boss sits in Miami. He's the president of the Americas, and the global CEO Dolf van den Brink. He used to run Heineken USA. So, on one end, the relationship obviously is very strong because we're very close and we know each other. And even though we're the second largest brewer in the world, it feels like a family.

So even though we have circa also 90,000 employees, it still feels more of a family. And every operating company globally, we operate autonomously, but obviously linked to the strategic framework from Amsterdam.

ANDY SERWER: There's so many brands of beer. And a lot of them are now owned by the giant companies, and we'll talk about your brand specifically, Maggie. But can you also talk to us a little bit about the other big beer companies? Give us the landscape of the competitive set, if you will.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, well I don't like to talk too much about my competition. But I also like to learn from the competition. Of course, ABI-- InBev-- is number one brewer in the world. We're number two. Molson Coors, or MillerCoors, is number three. And so on. And, you know, we have a healthy respect for our competitors, and our competitors do some really great things.

But we also, you know, we forge our own path. We are a majority owned by the Heineken family. Charlene Heineken was Freddy's daughter. And we balance what we need to do in the short term, but also what we need to do for the long term. Because we want to be around again another 165 years.

ANDY SERWER: Right. That ownership is probably a key differentiator, I think. That's right. So, you do have these other brands, though, like Red Stripe and Dos Equis and Amstel, as well as some ciders and even some cannabis infused drinks maybe we can talk about. What are the particular traits of the US market, Maggie? And how do you adapt with certain products and maybe not with others? What's your thinking there?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well, I think the, if you think about the pandemic, right? The pandemic has accelerated trends. People talk about the lines are blurred across categories for consumers. But I think if we're honest, there are no-- think about yourself, Andy, and what you drink or how you choose your products. There are no lines anymore.

Consumers go from wine to spirits to beer to seltzers. And in the US, for us in particular with our core brands, Heineken-- and we line extended into Heineken Zero Zero almost three years ago. That continues with we doubled the brand from 2019 to 20. We're double digit growth again-- high double digit growth again-- this year.

And then you look at our Dos Equis portfolio. Lager's doing great. We've line extended into ranch water. Lime and salt. I don't know if you've ever been to Texas. But do you want your beer dressed or not dressed? So a very simple lime and salt. Let's put it in the beer. And it's doing extraordinarily well. Flavored beers are doing well.

We did our partnership with Hornel Beverages with Arizona Sunrise to bring a seltzer that has real juice in there. So, we're moving from a beer company or a lager company in the United States into more of a beverage company meeting consumers' needs as they exist today, but also looking at how do we meet unmet needs that consumers don't even realize they have.

ANDY SERWER: Maggie, that sounds wonderful. On the other hand, I got a feel for you guys, and anyone in this business. Because there's this insatiable demand, as you say, for new things. And you're always creating new SKUs. But I wonder, how does that-- does it hurt the business? Help the business? It must be challenging, right?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well it's challenging because, you know, I always say when we have our meetings and we're talking about our innovation rate and what our new and next is, what impact does that have on our breweries that produce our products? Because they can't-- we have to be efficient and effective. So some things we have to really make choices and just say no to.

Because it's just too much of an impact on our production facilities. While at the same time, we need some small batch things in order to test and learn. Because I think some of the biggest mistakes that's made with innovation is you fire a big cannonball out without first calibrating some smaller tests to make sure that it's sustainable, and that it's feasible. So we're more in the test and learn mode. But quickly.

We need to have speed. Because we also want to make sure that once we know that something is working, that we scale fast. And we have some key measures of success in our test markets. And in particular, of course, and the rate of sale is very important. But again, sorry. All grounded in consumer insight.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Those trade offs are fascinating and must make the work very interesting that way. You mentioned COVID-19 and the pandemic. Surveys showed that many increased their alcohol consumption during this time. How did that demand play out for your products? And was it a challenge to meet?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: It was definitely a challenge to meet. The pandemic, you know, pandemic and pivot. I think about those two P's. We had to pivot, you know, fairly quickly. Our breweries in Mexico, beer was deemed non-essential by the Mexican government. They were shut down. So we had to pivot fairly quickly and temporarily produce Dos Equis and Tecate in the Netherlands. On premise was closed down.

So you know yourself, you were buying everything and bringing it home and consuming at home. So then we had to make a decision. Hey, let's put Dos Equis lager in a 5 liter keg. I don't know if you know our little 5 liter keg. So people can enjoy draft beer at home.

So, Andy, it threw up a lot of challenges. And probably this-- I mean, it was scary. I mean, think about yourself. It's scary. But we had to also increase our tolerance for ambiguity, make sure our people were safe. But also capitalize on opportunity that was there. And we did that very well as a company in 2020.

ANDY SERWER: I love those little baby kegs. Is that what you're talking about?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Baby keg. Yeah, well, yeah. The 5 liter, yeah, we have Heineken and we have Dos Equis. Yeah.

ANDY SERWER: Right.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I wouldn't necessarily call it a baby.

ANDY SERWER: Well, that's my-- I said it, not you. I'm not putting words in your--

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Isn't the quality phenomenal, Andy? The quality of the 5 liter keg? Yeah.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah. I love it. OK. So where do things stand now though, Maggie, that we're sort of getting back to normal a little bit? You know, bars and restaurants are open. How do you think about the outlook as that's going on? And in some ways in the US, but not in others.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, I think we're confident in the outlook. We have to stay ahead of the consumer in the US, all suppliers, number one. Number two, on premise is opening up. But it hasn't come back, obviously, to where it was. Because a lot of these businesses could not make it. And number three, I think fostering connections with our own employees-- physical connections-- is really, really important, so long as you can do it safely. And number four. There's a pandemic.

But you still have a business to run. So how do you balance the people agenda, your innovation agenda, and your core business agenda while meeting the needs of delivering the revenue and the profits, and also meeting the needs of your own employees who want to feel safe, who want to work for a company that cares about them, but who is also successful?

So, it's a melting pot of putting all those things together. And it's not or. You have to do it all.

ANDY SERWER: Right. You talked about all the new brands of beers and hybrids that you guys are doing. But what about the name brands like Heineken itself? How do you keep that brand, that flagship brand, relevant?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well you need to, first of all, ensure that you keep it premium. I mean, think about it, you know, your business is under pressure because of COVID. You want to keep your price where it is. You want to keep investing behind your brand. You want to keep your advertising, your ATL, BTL high, to ensure that even though it was a lot of ambiguity and where was the last year going to go, make sure you invest behind your core brand.

Also, ensure that you're innovating on that brand. And not just, you know, people always-- I find people most often default-- and you see our Heineken Zero Zero here-- default to what? A product. But also how you do things.

So we had a big issue last year. Because last year was the second year for Heineken Zero Zero. And sampling is really, really important. I'm not sure if you've had it, Andy. This is a great zero alcohol beer. But how do you sample during COVID?

So we pivoted. And we did, for example-- and this is where innovation comes in not only in what you do, but how you do it-- is we sampled Heineken Zero Zero at Tribeca where they had pop up movies, and you give a six pack for free. So really trying to pivot quickly. Because you don't have a lot of time to ensure that you're still getting sour grape brands in the hands of consumers.

ANDY SERWER: So you're drinking a Zero Zero doing this interview? I wish I had. I mean, that looks fantastic.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Send me your address, and I'll send you some.

ANDY SERWER: Deal.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Deal. This is a great product.

ANDY SERWER: That's great. And you can drink those at work, right?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Zero alcohol, 69 calories.

ANDY SERWER: Love it. OK.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Hashtag #nowyoucan.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Yeah. We're going to stock those in our work fridge. So there's also this challenge from trends in healthy eating and living. And you guys have this Zero Zero and some light beer. But how do you assess your addressing people who want to take care of health and wellness with beer?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: What-- how do we--

ANDY SERWER: So in other words--

MAGGIE TIMONEY: --how do we offer--

ANDY SERWER: Right. So there's this big macro trend of people wanting being healthier and beer is perceived as not.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Better for you.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah.

ANDY SERWER: How do you address that?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well, first of all, perception versus reality, right? And for us as a company, we want it to be real. Not just saying it's healthy for you and consumers being fooled or thinking it's better for you, right? I mean, Heineken Zero Zero. Zero alcohol, 69 calories. Arizona Sunrise. 100 calories, real juice. So when you pour an Arizona Sunrise, if it's Cherry Punch, it has the color because it's real juice in it.

So, listening to consumers and ensuring that we're delivering quality products in the way they want them, in the right occasion. And also making sure, I mean, we have some products that I can talk about right now, that will really tap into that whole health and wellness and moderation category. It could be zero alcohol, flavors, low alcohol. And not just beer.

ANDY SERWER: So you have some things on the drawing board, in other words?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yes, that I can't talk about.

ANDY SERWER: OK. Well we'll be watching that. Let's talk about hard seltzer. You know, this has been a real hot topic. It was streaking to the moon. You've got a bit of a pullback now, of course, that we've seen in this space. You guys are in this business as well. Where do things stand? Is that a threat to the core beer business? How have sales of your hard seltzer product been going, et cetera?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well, we're over five months in the market with Arizona Sunrise. So we're continuously building distribution. So it's going well. The category has slowed down. But I think people just need to realize also that you're going off 2020 numbers. And you know, consumer-- panic buying, hoard, you know, pantry loading. Seltzer's still circa 7% of beer. That's quite large. And it's still growing. Even though not at the rates of last year. Because again 2020, it's difficult, I think, to plan versus 2020. Because again, it was a lot of ambiguity.

But, you know, it taps into that moderation, or that health and wellness-- I should say, not moderation-- health and wellness space. And, you know, I think it's going to be around for some time.

ANDY SERWER: Right. And what is your brand? It's the Arizona brand that you were just talking about?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Arizona Sunrise.

ANDY SERWER: Arizona Sunrise. Right. Got it. OK. Another hot category is cannabis infused drinks. My understanding that Lagunitas, a subsidiary of yours, came out with one a few years ago. Where does that stand? And how are sales of that doing?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, I can't talk to Lagunitas specifically. That's a sister company to ours in the US and doesn't report into me. So I can't really answer that right now.

ANDY SERWER: OK. Would you ever consider having a marijuana infused Heineken?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I think we're open to different products. I'm not sure yet on Heineken, the brand?

ANDY SERWER: Yeah.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No.

ANDY SERWER: Interesting.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: All right. I thought you meant Heineken the company. Heineken--

ANDY SERWER: Well, I mean, I guess both. So Heineken the company, you'd be open to thinking about it. But Heineken, the brand, not at this point?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well, I mean, listen. Consumers have needs. We want to meet those needs. So long as it's in a sustainable and responsible way.

ANDY SERWER: Got it. OK. Let's talk a little bit about your employees and what's going on with the workforce in the United States for Heineken. Are your employees still working remotely? Do you have set plans for returning to the office?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, we have a combination of we have a lot of people out in the field. So they're out and about working with our distributors and our retailers. Our main office in White Plains opens in mid-October on a voluntary basis to see how we manage and ensure we keep everyone safe because of the Delta variant. That's thrown another spanner in the works. So we're just making sure we can keep people safe. Because put safety first is the number one behavior for Heineken USA. And globally.

We've managed to do a really good job of delivering during 2020 and '21, whilst we work behind our computers from home. But at the end of the day, you know, our business, it's a social business. Our culture is, you know, the touchpoints and the relationships with people are really important. And, you know, I think Simon Sinek said it. Music happens between the notes.

So you miss those people say, water cooler moments or getting a coffee. I'm sure you just miss them, Andy. You get a lot more done sometimes when you meet someone and say, hey, I just want to talk to you about this one thing. And those interactions you can't put a price on.

ANDY SERWER: And let me ask you, Maggie. I'm sorry for the ignorant question maybe. So is Heineken brewed and bottled in the United States? Or where does it come from? Where does a Heineken come from in America?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: All of our Heineken is imported from the Netherlands.

ANDY SERWER: I see. OK. And is it imported in bulk or in bottles?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: You mean, in cans, bottles, kegs.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah. So it's all three of those things. So you send kegs from Holland, you send bottles from Holland, you send cans from Holland.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Everything, 100%. We are 100% imported from the Netherlands.

ANDY SERWER: So the obvious question is, have you ever thought-- I mean, I'm sure you have. Why would you not build a brewery in the United States? Doesn't make sense?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: You know this, Andy. The United States is a big country. And our brand, even though our share might be smaller than you'd think for Heineken brand in the US, it just logistically, getting all of that beer from one brewery or two breweries around the US, that would be also very costly.

So of course, we think about it. We look at it every so often. But we have a very efficient supply chain end to end from our breweries in the Netherlands all the way to our demand points in the US, of which we have nine, and then out to our distributors.

ANDY SERWER: And does the beer half to stay cold when it's being shipped across the Atlantic?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No.

ANDY SERWER: It doesn't have to. Because it's pasteurized, I guess. That's right.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah.

ANDY SERWER: Got it. OK. Let me ask you. So to-go alcohol became legal in many places during the lockdown. And will stick around in about 20 states. What do you think about that? Is that a good thing?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I think it's a good thing. Because it gives consumers another option. Instead of-- I mean, I want the on premise to come back. But there's another vertical of to-go for food and beer. And believe it or not, in Texas, many of the restaurants who are doing food and alcohol to-go are sending a lot of the 5 liter Dos Equis lager. Because Dos Equis is really-- it's big in Texas. It's a loved brand in Texas. And now they're getting their draft beer at home with their meal as a package deal.

So I think it's a good thing. But again, we want our on premise-- we need on premise to come back. Not only for our business, but also for the social fabric of our communities.

ANDY SERWER: Right. I mean, in this new trend that we were just talking about may blur the answer to this question. But what was the breakdown roughly-- and maybe it's different for different brands-- between on premise consumption and consuming at home.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Oh, on premise consumption? I don't know that answer. I know off premise is 80, on premise is 20 on average. And then, you mean, consuming at home--

ANDY SERWER: Right, but so the off premise would be--

MAGGIE TIMONEY: 80.

ANDY SERWER: Yeah. So that's 80. So in other words, that's people going and buying Heineken and Dos Equis and taking it home. That's 80, and then 20%.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, and industry. Industry wide, it's basically 80-20, except when it goes for craft beers. Craft beers are consumed more in bars.

ANDY SERWER: Oh, that's fascinating.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Because of the draft, right? People like draft craft.

ANDY SERWER: Right, right. Got it. OK. So you're a woman CEO in a male dominated industry that's thought to serve a predominantly male customer base. What is it like being a woman in this business? And do changes need to be made to make it easier for other women to succeed in the beer business?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: It's great being a woman in this business. Let me just-- I want to just say that. I mean, I worked for Gallo, I worked for Anheuser-Busch wholesaler. I've worked for Heineken now for the past 23 years in many different capacities in many different countries. This is an unbelievable industry.

But what we don't do, Andy, is we don't really market the industry as a place to work. We market brands. You think Heineken USA, the first thing that comes into your mind is brand Heineken. You think MillerCoors, what comes in-- it's brand.

So, we just came out-- we took a leadership position with our program Behind The Label. And Behind The Label is a platform that we're using as taking leadership with the industry to showcase the people, the processes, the passion behind our industry. And our first chapter-- and there will be many more chapters-- is on gender.

Because we want to attract and win the war on talent and get the best people into our industry. Not just into Heineken USA. But rising above that and getting the best people in. Male or female, but the first chapter's on gender.

ANDY SERWER: Well skipping around here. Let me just ask you, Sam Adams just put out a beer with an alcohol content of 28%. And it's so high that it's been banned in 15 states. Any reaction to that? Would you ever put out a beer with an alcohol content like that?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No. Absolutely not.

ANDY SERWER: Why not.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I mean, think. Just think about our-- there's a beautiful side of our industry. But there's also the side where people imbibe too much or they have a disease where they can't stop drinking. They become alcoholics. You know, I'm from Ireland. Binge drinking, think about UK, Ireland. I've grown up with you see the dark side of alcohol. Every year for the past 10, 15 years, 10% of our media dollars goes towards responsible consumption.

So, we would never. We would never do an ABV that high.

ANDY SERWER: Interesting.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: We have a responsibility to ensuring that our products are-- it's uncool to be drunk. It's uncool to be drunk. And if we sell less beer, but we make an impact on alcohol misuse, we can put our heads on our pillows at night easily.

ANDY SERWER: We were talking earlier a little bit about this Washington Football Team quarterback, Taylor Heinicke. And he recently signed a big endorsement deal, I guess, with Bud Light and not Heineken. Do you have any regrets about that?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No. And we wish him all the best in his career. No regrets. It does sound like Heineken, though. You were right, Andy. We were chatting before we went on camera.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Let's talk about a little bit, Maggie. You, as you said, were born and raised in Ireland and came to the US for college at Iona, which is outside of New York City. How do you think that early life experience elsewhere shaped your business approach here in the United States?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: You know, we're all shaped by our childhood, right? So, youngest of four, growing up in a small town on the West of Ireland. And, yeah, you know, I've never looked at differently them all playing football in the street with the boys or the girls, or basketball, because that's how I ended up at Iona College in New Rochelle, New York.

But I think my childhood and playing sports-- I played for the Irish national team. I'd have to have a beer with you and expand that whole story about how I ended up getting a Division I scholarship for basketball.

ANDY SERWER: Give us the short version of that. Because I'm interested. You were one of the best basketball players to ever play at Iona. And, so that must have been an incredible experience. How did you get to be playing basketball growing up? And what was that like?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Yeah, I was very fortunate. Because our town was quite small-- 12,000 to 15,000 people, maybe 15 now in Ballina, County Mayo. I was just fortunate that this, through Guinness, a guy got transferred from Dublin to small town in Ballina and set up a basketball team. Danny Thompson. I would not be here today if it wasn't for Danny Thompson. So if he sees this, a big hi to him and Pauly. And then he set up a team. And I was horrible.

By the way, I started at 13, basketball. And I was terrible. I was terrible. But, you know, I persevered. And all of a sudden, my shot came on. And then, played for the Irish national team, ended up playing over here on tours a couple of weeks every November. And colleges and universities saw me and reached out to the Irish Basketball Association and offered me scholarship.

ANDY SERWER: Wow.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Wonderful scholarships. And I chose Iona.

ANDY SERWER: Right. Hey, have you guys thought about there's going to be college athletes can receive endorsement money from anywhere. That's all changing. Have you guys thought about endorsing college athletes at Heineken?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No. No. I mean, these college athletes are also under 21. And we're also mindful of ensuring that we're always doing the right thing, irrespective of if it's more volume or not.

ANDY SERWER: So as you said, you've been in the business for a while, Maggie? What? More than 25 years? What's the most significant change you've seen in the business or in drinking culture, over those 2 and 1/2 decades?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I think two things. One, the promiscuity is probably the wrong word. But the promiscuity of consumers to try all different types of beverages. Because, you know, growing up, you know, you were a beer drinker, or you were a vodka drinker. But now, that's all changed. And then obviously, I think digital media, social media, and just how fast trends accelerate.

And I think that whole moderation, health wellness is a big trend that maybe 15 years ago, we wouldn't have thought. But those two things are big changes. Because we're thinking about consumers and lines being blurred. I mean, you think about the world and you think about geographies. But there are no lines geographically anymore. The world is one place. And it's not that big anymore.

ANDY SERWER: All right. Let me ask you a really tough question, Maggie, which I'm sure you don't want to answer.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: I may not answer.

ANDY SERWER: No, I'm going to ask you this. What do you, when you kick back and relax, what's your drink of choice?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Heineken original.

ANDY SERWER: OK.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Well, I mean, I do. I love it. I'm from Ireland. I love beer. It's funny, you said before, you know, you market to men, and men predominantly drink beer. But there's a lot of women who love beer too. We just need to tap into that market and maybe give them something with a bit of a lager spin, whether it be a flavor or lime and salt, which I recommend you try. Dos Equis lime and salt. We just need to make products that appeal to the female palate. I grew up in Ireland, so I love beer.

ANDY SERWER: As a beer CEO, do you ever drink wine or vodka? Be honest.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: No, of course. I mean, of course I have a glass of wine. I don't drink vodka. I'm not really a spirits drinker. I'm a beer, and then a glass of wine with maybe a glass of red with steak now and again.

ANDY SERWER: Got it. And final question, Maggie. So, what would you like your legacy to be?

MAGGIE TIMONEY: In life? Or in Heineken USA?

ANDY SERWER: Both.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Both. Well A, I want the company, when I step down from this role, whenever that will be, I want this company to be in a strong place where we're gaining market share, over delivering, and producing beverages that for our consumers in this great country, number one.

And number two, I hope that I can shine a light on the path for other young women and men that can, earlier in their career, get chances taken on them so that they can progress and do great things. Because I think, and hopefully I live by this. But, take chances on people, people who figure it out. You know, we put a lot of stock into, oh, well he or she doesn't have this and they've never done that. Like, people are smart. They'll figure it out. And if they don't figure it out, what's the worst that can happen? It's a two way door. They'll go on and do something else and you'll hire someone else.

So that's what I'd love my legacy to be is that that path is free from all of the brambles and the bushes. It's a clear path for people to see how they can now take on the next stage of my legacy.

ANDY SERWER: Some great thinking there. Maggie Timoney, Heineken USA CEO. Thank you so much for being with us.

MAGGIE TIMONEY: Thank you Andy. A pleasure.

ANDY SERWER: You've been watching Influencers. I'm Andy Serwer. We'll see you next time.