JOSH LIPTON: So I guess, Matt, I'm trying to understand-- so consumers are paying this much for an iPhone. But you know, Matt, I'm still trying to understand what the consumer harm is. If you look at customer satisfaction rates for iPhones, Matt-- and this isn't my opinion, I mean, we have the data-- they're off the charts, right? I mean, people love the iPhone, they buy it. Every September, Tim Cook introduces a new one, they buy that, too. And if they didn't want to buy it, they have alternatives, right? There are Android devices.

MATT PLATKIN: Well, actually, as we allege in the complaint, Apple's practices have made it harder for people to switch off their platform. So they don't allow things like super apps on their platform, which would allow you to do multiple things in a cloud-based app, messages, purchase products, play games, the way you can on other platforms. On those apps, when they're cloud-based, you don't need the expensive hardware that an iPhone requires.

That would allow you to switch to a lower cost platform. Apple has made it harder to do that. They don't allow tap to pay on there-- any wallet other than their own wallet. They don't allow third party app stores on their platform even though they're beginning to allow that in other markets. So there's a number of things that Apple has done that, yes, are people still purchasing iPhones. They are. 7 in 10 almost of every smartphone is an iPhone.

But the reason-- a significant reason why people are staying on the iPhone platform is because Apple has deliberately made it harder for people to leave their platform by engaging in these exclusionary business practices.

JOSH LIPTON: Well, that'll be your argument, Matt, but won't Apple say, listen, people stick with our iPhone because they're satisfied, because they're loyal, because they're happy with the product?

MATT PLATKIN: Apple is free to make whatever arguments they want, but the facts are clear. When you see the practices that Apple has engaged in that other developers are not simply-- cannot do simply because they're not as big as Apple, it hearkens back to the practices we saw Microsoft engage in the 1990s when Apple was a lead witness in the Department of Justice and states' attorneys general case against Microsoft, that case is ultimately what allowed the iTunes platform to go on the Microsoft Windows platform, which led to the iPod and the iPhone.

So Apple's very familiar with the playbook that Microsoft engaged in. Ultimately, Apple has largely adopted that playbook in our opinion.